Other than that, great info, but I’d have to respectfully disagree with the logic behind not being a part of an MLM. It’s one business model. And whether you want to make it your full time job or just dabble, so long as you find a product and company you love, it can be a great way to diversify your income streams. $5000 a year (or $5) is more than most people make on their 401K, savings or any other conventional ways of investing. It’s an investment, and for those that chose to continue through the plateau, it results in residual income. Don’t like sales? Some of the companies are moving away from the door to door type sales models and putting a lot more emphasis on team building and adding value. And many companies are also discouraging distributors from spamming on social media- again- it comes down to the individual and their own business acumen. We can spend our lives blaming they systems or we can just own ourselves and be grateful for whatever we’ve learned from, and created out of each opportunity presented to us. It’s the choice of the individual at the end of the day but one thing I can say with certainty is that someone who blames MLM for their lack of success is lacking responsibility for themselves in other areas of their life too.
comes down to leadership and the individual. I even changed teams to find the right mentor and coaching when I knew I was struggling. I found a team that trains people to be some network marketing professionals, and really the math is simple and anyone can make residual income if they do it correctly. The problem is people sign everyone up they can and then most drop out. You only want to work with those that are committed to do the work and be able to work closely with them until they are a developed leader. In all actuality ssigning everyone up as an associate is against the rules and a big no no. Having customers benefits everyone and in most business models like the one I’m with I make more commission off customers than associates that aren’t working.
Fast forward to 2017. LuLaRoe is the biggest MLM for women. “More than 80,000 women have paid around $5,000 for several boxes of low-cost clothing and worked as much as 80-hour weeks to outfit hundreds of thousands of suburban women in multicolored polyester. But according to a report that studied the business models of 350 MLMs, published on the Federal Trade Commission’s website, 99% of people who join multilevel-marketing companies lose money. Depending on how you look at it, it’s either a brilliant business model or a predatory practice — or a little bit of both.” (FTC)
MLMs are successful because they provide tempting possibilities — the more you recruit, the more you sell, and the more you make. The possibility for income seems almost endless. However, only a few companies can make this dream a reality. So how do you spot the good ones from the bad ones? Look at the product. If the company has put time and money into creating a valuable product, they will put time and money into selling it.
Leads should come in the form of people that are likely to work with you. When you get leads for free, they may not be targeted. That’s okay though, you can target these people yourself, and it’s free to do if you’re willing to put some time into learning marketing. Don’t just get a logo slapped together and act like you’re an awesome company with all kinds of things you don’t really have in place. However, you can work with leads that you target by learning to make a splash in places like review websites and other places people read more about companies.

Actually, it really doesnt matter when you join a company. It all depends on the person deciding to jump in and work it as a real business. That means sharing your love of the products and showing up daily. You are compensated for your efforts if you should decide to build a team. You inspire, motivate, and lead others while working on your own business. In my experience, it’s extremely rewarding to know you have a opportunity or as i see it as a gift that is going to help someone.


I appreciate this comment. I’m a doTERRA gal. When I signed up I said I’d never sell. I just wanted to buy and use the oils. Then because of my love for them, people started coming to me for education and asking where they could get oils. So now I sell them. I’m not a sales person. I can’t bug my friends about stuff. But I’m growing this business because I truly believe in the products and use them every single day. I may not ever become rich from this and that’s OK with me. I won’t consider it a failure. Every person I help is a success in my book!
We are always making sure that all of our Biz Opp Leads are as current as they can possibly be so that your List always contains the up-to-date information you expect to receive. This means that we have to pay attention to any and all of the changes that occur in the business world, such as new technological developments, in order to provide you with the latest and greatest Lead information.
4) Treat your MLM business like a business. Despite what you might hear, MLM isn't a get rich scheme. Like any business it requires you to define your target market, reach out to your market, and make sales.You have a sponsor to help you, but she isn't going to do the work for you.Your success in MLM or any business is based on the quality of work you do.
It seems to me that in your assessment of the top 25 MLM that you had a preference for one essential oil company (Young Living) over the other (doTERRA) which outranked YL. You give a glowing review of YL and state that they “set the standard” & are a “solid pick”. While you seem to question why people could possibly like doTERRA with comments like “Users swear by the oils, and for whatever reason, people (and not just people in Utah) are strangely passionate about telling their friends about them.” For “whatever reason”??? “Strangely passionate”??? You come across as bias. You also incorrectly state that YL set the standard for quality, while they may have been the first legit EO Co. they didn’t set the standard. Infact their lack of wanting to find the purest most potent EO available (which comes from the country the plants are indigenous to) and having strict testing to ensure the purity and potency is why doTERRA was founded, doTERRA set the standard because YL didn’t want to. And that is why doTERRA is the #1 EO company and why Young Living is not. Not to mention how well doTERRA takes care of the suppliers through Co-Impacting and how they’re improving their lives through The Healing Hands Foundation. The foundation builds wells, schools, provides personal care products as well as many other things. doTERRA is changing lives for the better all around the world so that is one of the “reasons” we’re “strangely passionate” about spreading the good news of doTERRA essential oils. Not only are doTERRA EO more potent and purer making the the “solid pick” they are literally saving peoples lives.
I am considering joining a MLM but can’t decide. Almost everyone I know either does Genesis Pure, Xyngular, or Thrive. I want something that is healthy and simple. Not something you have to do 3-5 items to have great health results. Please help! There are so many choices. I have researched and read reviews, about the companies and they each have pros and cons. Suggestions please Elliot and thanks again for your time and assistance.
I’ve heard all the arguments. “How can it be a pyramid scheme if it’s legal?” Through some crafty loopholes. The fact that there is an actual product to sell allows them to operate and give the appearance of legitimacy. “You just haven’t found a good MLM yet.” Wrong. A good MLM is an oxymoron. “But how is this any different from any other major corporation where the CEO makes the most money?” Because the people below the CEO at legit companies get paid salaries and have actual benefits. They don’t depend on endless chains of recruiting new members.
Now that companies can easily sell directly to their customers online, people look to social media to get their recommendations for products, and the popularity of subscription beauty boxes, not to mention the fact that there are so many retail stores even in the most far out suburbs, I don’t see how the network marketing model is necessary anymore. The only people who defend them are the people who were trained to. This is because MLMs love to brainwash you into defending them against naysayers and demand you go on the offensive to anyone who might disagree. They may still have wide-eyed hope. It’s sad and terrible. The sooner these pyramid schemes are declared illegal and go out of the business, the better off the world will be.
I am not at all saying that someone can't find leads and get sign-ups from some of these systems. However in the end, network marketing is about creating relationships. If you are looking for fast, SHORT-TERM money... Google MLM leads and go to town. If you are looking for a long-term, consistent income... get to know your upline and learn how they became successful. I, personally, have yet to talk to a truly successful network marketing professional that has told me about any 'shortcut' to success.
Compensation Plan: Similar to the plan, this outlines all the ways reps earn money. To be legal and not a scam, the focus when it comes to earning money needs to be on the sales of products and services, not on recruitment of new members. Along with commissions on sales made by you and your team, many companies pay bonuses and increase commission splits based on volume of sales.
The main reason why leading world companies create accounts in social networks is to attract traffic to landing pages and websites. YouTube's video hosting by the number of search queries is second only to the Google search engine, and you can attract some of this huge traffic flow to your site / landing page by simply posting your video (and related links to your web resources) on this hosting.

“MLMs very rarely emphasize the extreme likelihood of failure, or the extreme likelihood of financial loss, from participation in MLM. MLMs are also seldom forthcoming about the fact that any significant success of the few individuals at the top of the MLM participant pyramid is in fact dependent on the continued financial loss and failure of all other participants below them in the MLM pyramid.” (Wikipedia)
MLM is basically a Multi-Level Marketing. It is a kind of marketing structure where the product or service flows on Word of Mouth publicity and most of the companies avoid advertisements when following such structure. Advertisements requires a huge some of money which in turn raises the cost of the product but there's no change in quality whereas the amount which was supposed to be paid to the advertisers and middle men or distribution channel is distributed among the distributors of the company.
A constant and steady lead flow in your Network Marketing business is vital to being successful. Not everyone is comfortable talking to friends and family or feel they have burnt them out. I have found that most of the times this is NOT the actual case but when getting started, you need to seek out numerous, reliable sources to create a steady lead flow. Buying MLM leads is one way to create instant lead flow, and also compliment other lead generation sources.
It seems to me that in your assessment of the top 25 MLM that you had a preference for one essential oil company (Young Living) over the other (doTERRA) which outranked YL. You give a glowing review of YL and state that they “set the standard” & are a “solid pick”. While you seem to question why people could possibly like doTERRA with comments like “Users swear by the oils, and for whatever reason, people (and not just people in Utah) are strangely passionate about telling their friends about them.” For “whatever reason”??? “Strangely passionate”??? You come across as bias. You also incorrectly state that YL set the standard for quality, while they may have been the first legit EO Co. they didn’t set the standard. Infact their lack of wanting to find the purest most potent EO available (which comes from the country the plants are indigenous to) and having strict testing to ensure the purity and potency is why doTERRA was founded, doTERRA set the standard because YL didn’t want to. And that is why doTERRA is the #1 EO company and why Young Living is not. Not to mention how well doTERRA takes care of the suppliers through Co-Impacting and how they’re improving their lives through The Healing Hands Foundation. The foundation builds wells, schools, provides personal care products as well as many other things. doTERRA is changing lives for the better all around the world so that is one of the “reasons” we’re “strangely passionate” about spreading the good news of doTERRA essential oils. Not only are doTERRA EO more potent and purer making the the “solid pick” they are literally saving peoples lives.
Once you’ve made your connections, presented your opportunity, validated you and your company, ask for the sale! So many opportunities are missed simply because a person was too busy connecting and chatting, instead of asking for the business. You are looking for serious people to join and become a part of your team, don’t forget to ask. The experience and hands on training you get by just getting on the phone and making calls, is priceless. The more you are calling leads, the better you will become.
Are you looking to improve your MLM and Network Marketing sales skills? You're either Making Sales or you're making Excuses, not making any sales. Peter Mingils teaches the Making Sales or Excuses Training Course. To get the right kind of MLM training, you can take the Mini Course or the Full Course and increase your sales and sales management skills!
Now this is the kind of business opportunity seeker you like to work with – these are the bizopps buyers!!  These folks went all the way through the sales funnel, and many of them paid for a Business Opportunity e-book to learn how to start a home-based or internet business.  They aren’t tire kickers. Bizopp buyers pull out the plastic when it comes to funding their money making goals and dreams.
There are many red flags that should warn you away from a business or financial opportunity, but the biggest is a lack of a product. Programs that push recruiting over the sales of a product or service might be a pyramid scheme. If a company isn’t focused on acquiring more customers to buy its products, but rather it's interested in "building a team" or membership of sales reps, consider it a red flag. The foundation of any good MLM business is about getting products and service to end consumers.
It’s estimated that in under 2 years almost 90% of web traffic by volume will be video. If you have the skills, or can hire a good SEO specialist, it is possible to rank a sales video on Page 1 of Google with relative ease depending on how competitive your niche is. Put a visible call to action in the title which appears in the search engine results page, and link the YouTube video through to your web site and with luck you should have a nice flow of leads as long as your video is listed on Page 1.
Local business opportunity leads are available by telephone area code of where you want your leads. You can have as many area codes assigned to your order as you desire. At any time you can add or remove telephone area codes by contacting us. The more telephone area codes you provide us, the faster your local business opportunity leads order will fill. Click here to order.
I just started selling for one of the top 15 and I went in knowing that this was just supplemental cash and nothing that would support my family. I spend 15 minutes (mostly from my phone) a day on my business and am happy with what I’ve done thus far. If it covers groceries and some extras like clothes or shoes, I’m good. If I start to become even more successful, great. It’s my competitive nature to want to out rank others, so I find it to be more of a personal challenge than thinking I’m going to get rich and stay rich. I appreciate the article and the no BS attitude.

I have a friend who is proposing I join Arbonne? She would be good to work with although I am not educated on all the MLM companies and don’t want to make the wrong choice. I also have a blog which I want to leverage and it seems like most of the health and wellness MLMs utilize hosted parties. Are there any that are more internet based that have had a long time track record! Thanks and sorry for all the questions!
MLMs are designed to make profit for the owners/shareholders of the company, and a few individual participants at the top levels of the MLM pyramid of participants. According to the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC), some MLM companies already constitute illegal pyramid schemes even by the narrower existing legislation, exploiting members of the organization.[21] There have been calls in various countries to broaden existing anti-pyramid scheme legislation to include MLMs, or to enact specific anti-MLM legislation to make all MLMs illegal in parallel to pyramid schemes, as has already been done in some jurisdictions.[citation needed]

"Your business opportunity leads continue to get better! The more I use your services, the more dollars I earn! My experience with your services started about 3 months back when I was searching for some reliable and genuine leads for my home based business. After reading through your site, I decided to take a chance and order some leads. But BOY! I never expected the results so swift and so good. The leads were turning into sales in no time and I had to order another fresh list. I have been ordering almost weekly since then and as expected, this time too, the conversion rate is tremendous. I'm surely planning to buy another list at the earliest."


I have had a lot of people ask me about buying opportunity leads so I decided to team up with Responsive Data that is the top supplier of real time leads in our industry. Their services are used by people like Ray and Ferny, Todd Falcone, Ted Nuyten and more. If you are serious about buying leads or want to get better on the phone, visit my brand new page where you can buy leads today – Business Opportunity Leads Store
For full disclosure, I want to point out that I am not affiliated with any multi-level marketing or direct sales companies, and that I don’t receive any compensation from the industry for my opinion on it.  I’m sharing this with you because after I wrote what is considered the most widely read, copied, and quoted MLM article in the history of the industry, I was accused of writing it to promote my own MLM business or the industry in general, which is not the case.
If you want quick leads to your business opportunity as of yesterday, why not send a quick request. You just need to visit the members list, choose target members and send them a message. Remember, you can categorized members according to their countries of origin. So you can go for Australian, UK, USA … business opportunity leads without having to sift through hundreds of countries that you are not interested in.
I have been looking over your sites and viewing the many videos. It sounds appealing however there are many many . . . many lead generators out there, some that are well established (and very good at what they do) and so my question is why would I pay you to train me for 5 weeks and think I could compete (let alone generate income) in the short period you mention?
They have the stay-at-home-mother meets women entrepreneur mixture working for them. What does that even mean? Means they have the practicality side of the company that is off the product and they have the sales, entrepreneur people them promoting it, too. Anyone who follows MLM knows its usually too “product practical” (see: Tupperware, Cutco) or too “opportunity-centric” (see: Herbalife).
We strive to verify all of our data and to also ensure your best experience we also offer this lead Replacement policy. If you receive a Disconnected, wrong number or bad email address, we will replace them. Simply complete a support ticket with the leads in question and we will add fresh business opportunity leads to your account. No Questions Asked.. WE Stand Behind Our LEADS!
According to software giant SAS, multi-channel marketing is critical. Reaching potential clients at every touch point can make or break a well crafted marketing campaign. Bizopps data leads may be the perfect supplement to a social media campaign hitting Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and all. If you want to be on their mind then it is best to include their email, phone AND mail box…right?

Whether you’re looking into multi-level marketing or interested in starting a different kind of business venture, the right education can make all the difference. An online bachelor’s in business administration or online MBA from Rivier University can help you acquire the skills you need to make your mark in the business world. Learn in a dynamic, flexible environment on a schedule that fits your lifestyle.
We are one of the top companies on the internet for helping you find the MLM leads that you need. Whether you want fresh or aged leads, national or local leads, we have exactly what you will need to build your distributor network exactly the way you want to. Whenever you order MLM leads from us, you can rest assured that none of your exclusive leads will be shared with anyone from the same company or business opportunity that you are promoting. Along with our real-time delivery of your lists, freshness options and total control over your account settings, you can get terrific MLM leads fast!

Each company will have a different startup cost, which is a fee that new distributors must pay to begin distributing. Companies with high startup costs are more likely to be recruitment-centric MLMs. MLMs that focus on recruitment are generally called pyramid schemes, or schemes designed only to tie down new recruits instead of selling quality products to interested customers.


Don’t worry you will learn how to build your Business with my Cost Effective ways of getting leads for MLM guide. In this process do yourself a favor by telling “I can always quit tomorrow” Every Single Day. Why you should follow this guide? Because you owe Financial Freedom and Success you dreamed for. One last thing I want to tell you is that there is no rocket science in enticing or persuading people who are not interested in your business opportunity. Many of them are either simply looking for information or they don’t have initial investment. Remember for Internet Marketing to work, Learn Copy writing skills. Enticing Leads through your copy comes with good copy writing skills.
Each company will have a different startup cost, which is a fee that new distributors must pay to begin distributing. Companies with high startup costs are more likely to be recruitment-centric MLMs. MLMs that focus on recruitment are generally called pyramid schemes, or schemes designed only to tie down new recruits instead of selling quality products to interested customers.
Thanks Ray for this info about the lead company. Some time ago I purchased Todd’s script book and purchased a large group of leads from another company. After over 400 calls I realized that the company had sold my ‘exclusive’ leads, muliple times. Did I consider it a waste of time and money? No, it was a very good training opportunity for me. Most people have a job and work and can’t take time off to get a ‘telemarketer’ job. But they can get a script book and get a group of inexpensive leads and use it as a form of training on the phone. After a large no. of calls the phone can become a familiar and usable tool.

In an October 15, 2010 article, it was stated that documents of a MLM called Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing reveal that 30 percent of its representatives make no money and that 54 percent of the remaining 70 percent only make $93 a month, before costs. Fortune was under investigation by the Attorneys General of Texas, Kentucky, North Dakota, and North Carolina with Missouri, South Carolina, Illinois, and Florida following up complaints against the company.[39] The FTC eventually stated that Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing was a pyramid scheme and that checks totaling more than $3.7 million were being mailed to the victims.[40]
Build an email list. There is a system for working with leads. The first step is getting them to be aware of and take an interest in what you have—by visiting your website, for example. The next best step is to ask your leads to sign up for your email list. You can get them to sign up by offering something for free, such as a report or something useful, from your website. For instance, if you're selling wellness products, then you might offer a guide to good-for-you ingredients or recipes. This will allow you to communicate with your prospects and provide valuable information related to your business and the general field that it's in, such as special sales, events, news, and research—and stay top-of-mind to your past, current, and possible future customers. Just be sure that you're following the laws and regulations regarding email marketing.
Not only are “home businesses” or “MLM’s” very interesting, they are successful. Many of the longest standing organizations in this country have this business model. MLM is a marketing strategy in which the sales force is compensated not only for sales they personally generate, but also for the sales of others they recruit, creating a downline of distributors and a hierarchy of multiple levels of compensation. Most commonly, the salespeople are expected to sell products directly to consumers by means of relationship referrals and word of mouth marketing. Sounds legit right – so why the bad press?
Have had great results with the 25 Lead we purchased. The 1-3 Day Premium leads are great quality Leads.The question I have. Is there any type of discount, when I bought the last 25 leads I type a code & received 20% discount.Could you please let me know if there is any discounts, as I would like to purchase some more leads in Australia.Many Thank,Doug Glennie
But please do a little research before you blanket insult an entire industry or business model. I am a single mother with a 6 figure income because of MLM, nearly twice that when I’m actively working my business with both of the companies I represent, and while not everyone has the skill set to succeed in this business, the potential is certainly there, for those that do.
Considering their products are botanically based with an ingredient policy that prohibits many of the chemicals and fillers Mary Kay and Avon still use in their own products, I’d say they’ve established a business for men and woman who are truly serious about the health of their skin, not just the evenness of their complexion. A little research goes a long way.
Don’t let our low prices fool you. Just because we wanted to offer reasonable prices to our customers doesn’t mean our List of Leads doesn’t contain anything other than the highest quality leads. You may even see other companies offering similar Lists for more money and think that they must have a better List. Guess what? They don’t! We just want to really help you find any and all of the Business Opportunity Seekers who can help you with your particular business. Any questions? We are here for you! Contact us today for a personal answer to any questions you may have for us.
Also called pyramid selling or network marketing, multi-level marketing companies grow revenue by hiring and recruiting non-salaried employees referred to as distributors, influencers, consultants, salespeople, or promoters (among other names). In other words, employees generally receive compensation from performance through a pyramid-shaped compensation system.

Here is how they mostly work: You sign up and pay the buy-in fee to receive your startup kit, and then you start clogging everyone’s social media feeds about your new venture and beg your friends and family to join you on your “journey to financial success”. You host a bunch of fake parties and wine tastings or worse, you meet up one-on-one to catch up and the whole thing turns out to be nothing more than a demo and sales pitch where you guilt your friends into buying stuff they don’t want or need. After you subject them to that, you then try to recruit them to join your team of consultants, or whatever term your particular MLM uses.
Great job on the top 25 MLMs. Really like what you’re doing for the industry as a whole. Your analysis is spot on. However, a closer look at retention rates for each company might give you another perspective on the value proposition of any given company. As a Doterra Wellness Advocate we are told by our corporate execs that we have a 65% retention rate with customers repurchasing the product within 3 months. And that if we based it on the industry standard of 12 months our retention would go up to 85%. I’m told that this is unprecedented in network marketing. So I’m believing that Doterra is succeeding because its selling a product that works and that users and word-of-mouth drive the business in the long run.
Before launching Omnilife and becoming a billionaire, Jorge Vergara sold street tacos in Mexico, smuggled Herbalife supplements into Mexico, and sweet talked the Mexican government into changing their regulations in the nutritional products sector. This guy could make a movie about his life and it would probably win an Academy Award (he’s actually a major film producer on the side, casual).
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QUALITY LEADS THAT ARE NEVER OVERSOLD: Responsive MLM Leads are essential for the growth of any network marketing/home based business. Many of our competitors resell leads innumerable times and render the leads unresponsive and worthless. Unlike our competitors, we pledge to sell our leads a maximum of 2 times to two different and absolutely unrelated businesses. In fact, our exclusive leads are sold just once!
I am considering joining a MLM but can’t decide. Almost everyone I know either does Genesis Pure, Xyngular, or Thrive. I want something that is healthy and simple. Not something you have to do 3-5 items to have great health results. Please help! There are so many choices. I have researched and read reviews, about the companies and they each have pros and cons. Suggestions please Elliot and thanks again for your time and assistance.
Not only are “home businesses” or “MLM’s” very interesting, they are successful. Many of the longest standing organizations in this country have this business model. MLM is a marketing strategy in which the sales force is compensated not only for sales they personally generate, but also for the sales of others they recruit, creating a downline of distributors and a hierarchy of multiple levels of compensation. Most commonly, the salespeople are expected to sell products directly to consumers by means of relationship referrals and word of mouth marketing. Sounds legit right – so why the bad press?
It was an absolute pleasure doing business with you. I was very pleased with the speed that you delivered your product. We ordered a specific quantity of addresses but Listguy was very generous in supplying 5,000 more addresses that we had requested at no further cost. We were able to acquire the addresses we needed in the time frame we required. I would definitely recommend Listguy!
Being a part of the MLM race is not just about being able to secure the right kind of business. It is not only about being able to sell the kind of products/services that are of the highest quality. You have to be able to come up with some of the best MLM leads to be worth it both in the short and long-term for a successful online business. Let’s take a glance at a few factors that should be kept in mind by those who want to find them  in their area and get that home business off the ground. Get some tips on Leads for MLM Business

Much has been made of the personal, or internal, consumption issue in recent years. In fact, the amount of internal consumption in any multi-level compensation business does not determine whether or not the FTC will consider the plan a pyramid scheme. The critical question for the FTC is whether the revenues that primarily support the commissions paid to all participants are generated from purchases of goods and services that are not simply incidental to the purchase of the right to participate in a money-making venture.[46]
In March I joined an MLM company and I’m lost… my first reaction to network marketing was I’m not a sales person, to which I was told it’s not about sales but about building relationships. The other thing that makes me crazy is I see a lot of folks who appear so fake with their bubbly “everything is coming up roses and bubble gum” that I cringe. I’m honest to a fault and happy but not giddy. I feel like I have writers block in that I’m not sure what direction to take to get my business going, the struggle is real right now… Any thoughts or suggestions I can take away.
Is Home Depot going to run a class on how to make submarine sandwiches? No. Makes no sense, right? Would people be attracted to that? Like that one I might attend. I like submarine sandwiches, they’re pretty good. That I might attend but I’m going to go there and be like why am I in a building supply company? I’m not going to buy anything. It doesn’t make sense.
Hi Don,First I want to say how impressed I have been with your company. I have dealt with a great deal of leads companies over the last 6 years and have never dealt with a more responsive company than yours. Actually they don't come close to being this quick to respond- let alone it being the owner of the company to reach out. So thank you for that! Also, thank you for the information! I'm happy with that response - I was just curious about the process. This is only my second time ordering leads at or over 10,000 in ...
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