A long time friend that you lost touch with for the last 10 years gives you a call and asks to meet up. After meeting up and breaking the ice, he/she then introduces a new revolutionary product and how you stand to get rich by selling it. Throw in jargons like passive income and downlines, you suddenly realise you’re beginning to be sucked into the dream they are selling.
Whether you’re looking into multi-level marketing or interested in starting a different kind of business venture, the right education can make all the difference. An online bachelor’s in business administration or online MBA from Rivier University can help you acquire the skills you need to make your mark in the business world. Learn in a dynamic, flexible environment on a schedule that fits your lifestyle.

Don is a great person to work with. He has a lot of knowledge. The Apache Leads support team will answer any questions that you have.After searching long and hard for a legitimate MLM phone lead company on Google, I discovered Apache Leads. I gave them a go and I'm glad that I did.You won't be disappointed, the leads were real people who are genuine, who are actually looking for a home-based business. I will continue to use Apache Leads to help expand my business.


Most people who try network marketing fail – not because the products they are marketing are poor, but because they do not realise how much effort network marketing is, and how much time they need to put into it. All too often, would-be marketers give up when they get to the six month point, but they are not quite turning a good profit. What they don’t realise is that if they had waited it out just a few months more, and kept on marketing and expanding their business, then they could have been profitable.

I love love love this article! I’m a business growth coach who works with small business owners and often leaders from other MLM’s. From time to time I’ll get someone who has been struggling significantly even getting started and I find that it’s sheer absence of knowledge of the numbers. They are still under the impression that if I get three, and they get three then we’re all going to be millionaires. It’s very sad but the truth is not being told. Being in an MLM is hard. But it is very doable. I have had significant success in the past, while I am not in an MLM now. Nor do I want to be, you must be all In to make it work. Thank you for sharing this. I would love to interview you on one of my webinars


I enjoyed this post and spent too many hours reading all your other posts and watching your videos. You have some excellent real life experiences to share and glad I found this blog. My wife and I are with It Works Global (She started it and I came on board later). I was curious why they didn’t make your list? Do you think blogging would work with this type MLM? I have only had success using Instagram and Facebook. The MLM model is not something I like but it is what is I guess. My wife joined to get a discount on wraps and now this insane looking chart pays the bills. I want to take it further just keep searching for a good way to do so. Maybe blogging is the answer? Thank you. for your time. Mike
Some MLM reps will promote their business as a "job" or use other description​s to lure prospects. MLM isn't a job, it's a business. Any MLM rep promoting "employment" is using deception and isn't someone you want to work with. Other deceptive (and often illegal) practices include making income guarantees or suggesting you'll make money doing very little. 

My network marketing Leads are the best way to follow the golden proverb that somebody must have dropped coming down the mountain, because when it fell, it hit so hard that everyone doesn’t think twice about it just being plan common sense. And I don’t know why it isn’t folded into every California cookie because it is the best way to gain a fortune. This proverb that needs much repeating is “Work smarter, not harder.”
The main sales pitch of MLM companies to their participants and prospective participants is not the MLM company's products or services. The products/services are largely peripheral to the MLM model. Rather, the true sales pitch and emphasis is on a confidence given to participants of potential financial independence through participation in the MLM, luring with phrases like "the lifestyle you deserve" or "independent distributor."[16] Erik German's memoir My Father's Dream documents the real life failures of German's father as he is lured into "get-rich-quick" schemes such as Amway.[17] The memoir illustrates the multi-level marketing sales principle known as "selling the dream".[18]
I agree with you that much of the industry is flawed, but what about an MLM that has a service rather than a product such as electricity. It’s not like that could go out of style or that once you buy it you don’t need it again or that your monthly supply is too much and you’re going to stop the monthly subscriptions. I can honestly say that I cannot stand most MLM companies because regardless what you believe or how much you like the product, if you have to try to convince someone else to use it then inevitably the system is flawed and eventually your residuals will dry up. Electricity though, that’s different in my opinion, no one has to convince me to use it, it just comes by default. Find me an MLM that is not selling so much as showing someone an alternative to what they already have to pay and I’d be interested. 

Market America is just as known for their massive discounted products portal as they are for their crazy rich CEOs. I’m talking Forbes list, mansion in Biscayne Bay and penthouse in Manhattan, celeb bffs, and giant yachts rich…all thanks to MLM. They’ve hit their fair share of SEC-shaped road blocks, but Market America is still going strong at #29 on the DSN Global 100.
Twitter offers a more automated means of lead capture. With a target web site, either your own or the ‘offer’ money site, you are in a position to write short articles or blogs and then post Tweets carrying links to these articles. Keep those down to about 10% of the total, linking the other 90% to interesting on-topic snippets elsewhere on the web. Then use a good scheduler to queue a week or two’s Tweets and then let it run on auto pilot.
How MLM companies are NOT considered Pyramid organizations is beyond me! They are all scams by the very nature of their organization structure. Those who start or get in early benefit directly from the efforts of those beneath them, forever. Not to mention the fact that most product sold through any of these MLM organization’s is to the dealer network itself. The top dogs are making money regardless as long as there is new blood coming in. And the best way to keep new blood coming in is to incentivize those at the lower middle and below to continue recruiting to build “a network of their own”. And those on the verge of “breaking through” who have already invested a small fortune in products along the way that are sitting on their pantry shelves NEED to keep recruiting. The very thing that differentiates a Pyramid scheme from an MLM is that an MLM sells an actual product. That is it. It doesn’t determine who that product is sold to as it should since we know that most product is sold to the worker bees and not to the general public for long.
http://www.idahofallsmagazine.com/2014/12/demystifying-Melaleuca does NOT fit any of the descriptions about multi-level marketing. Best double check. 😀 We had to. We thought it was until we looked closer. Opening Online Shopping Accounts! Not a “home parties” company, no inventory, and no delivering of products. Just a website! Best HOME BASED Business we have ever found. And we have been LOOKING! Thanks.
The Federal Trade Commission warns "Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. Some are pyramid schemes. It's best not to get involved in plans where the money you make is based primarily on the number of distributors you recruit and your sales to them, rather than on your sales to people outside the plan who intend to use the products."[21]
4) Treat your MLM business like a business. Despite what you might hear, MLM isn't a get rich scheme. Like any business it requires you to define your target market, reach out to your market, and make sales.You have a sponsor to help you, but she isn't going to do the work for you.Your success in MLM or any business is based on the quality of work you do.
We are Not a Network Marketing Company, but are the Largest Lead Vendor to the Network Marketing Industry.  We are your one-stop-shop for the best Home Based Business and MLM leads! We provide our customers with the freshest, up-to-date leads and information in order to help you and your business succeed. All of our leads are highly qualified individuals that are interested in getting involved with a home based business. If you’re looking to expand your business, we’ve got the leads and information you need! Our company is dedicated to supplying you and your business with the best leads possible! We understand you need a reliable and credible lead source and that’s why we’re here!
MLMs are designed to make profit for the owners/shareholders of the company, and a few individual participants at the top levels of the MLM pyramid of participants. According to the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC), some MLM companies already constitute illegal pyramid schemes even by the narrower existing legislation, exploiting members of the organization.[21] There have been calls in various countries to broaden existing anti-pyramid scheme legislation to include MLMs, or to enact specific anti-MLM legislation to make all MLMs illegal in parallel to pyramid schemes, as has already been done in some jurisdictions.[citation needed]

A 2018 poll of 1,049 MLM sellers across various companies found that most sellers make less than the equivalent of 70 cents an hour. Nearly 20 percent of those polled never made a sale, and nearly 60 percent earned less than $500 in sales over the past five years.[42][43] Nearly 32 percent of those polled acquired credit card debt to finance their MLM involvement.[44]
For full disclosure, I want to point out that I am not affiliated with any multi-level marketing or direct sales companies, and that I don’t receive any compensation from the industry for my opinion on it.  I’m sharing this with you because after I wrote what is considered the most widely read, copied, and quoted MLM article in the history of the industry, I was accused of writing it to promote my own MLM business or the industry in general, which is not the case.
The Filipino community, much like many immigrant communities, is ripe for the recruitment of participants in MLMs. Filipino immigrants can be particularly easy targets to exploit, as this Filipino-American writer can attest. They are easygoing and friendly. The ones with a college education understand and speak English very well. The community is crawling with network marketers hawking everything from cosmetics to travel packages to insurance products, courtesy of companies that promise the dream of passive income as well as incentives such as car bonuses and vacations.

Many MLM companies do generate billions of dollars in annual revenue and hundreds of millions of dollars in annual profit. However, the profits of the MLM company are accrued at the detriment to the majority of the company's constituent workforce (the MLM participants). Only some of said profit is then significantly shared with individual participants at the top of the MLM distributorship pyramid. The earnings of those top few participants is emphasized and championed at company seminars and conferences, thus creating an illusion of how one can potentially become financially successful if they become a participants in the MLM. This is then advertised by the MLM company to recruit more distributors to participate in the MLM with a false anticipation of earning margins which are in reality merely theoretical and statistically improbable.[14]


Multi Level Marketing (MLM) is a business model or marketing strategy in which the distributors' income includes their own sales, and a percentage of the sales group they recruit, which is commonly known as their ‘downline’. Customers can also sign up as a distributor to sell the company’s product. Usually, the sign up fee will be the price paid to purchase the product.
I enjoyed this post and spent too many hours reading all your other posts and watching your videos. You have some excellent real life experiences to share and glad I found this blog. My wife and I are with It Works Global (She started it and I came on board later). I was curious why they didn’t make your list? Do you think blogging would work with this type MLM? I have only had success using Instagram and Facebook. The MLM model is not something I like but it is what is I guess. My wife joined to get a discount on wraps and now this insane looking chart pays the bills. I want to take it further just keep searching for a good way to do so. Maybe blogging is the answer? Thank you. for your time. Mike
Unlike other distribution methods MLM/NM companies don't advertise their products on TV or other mass media but rather depend on their customers to share the experience and recommend the products to their friends and relatives through word of mouth. They in return get 10-12 % profit of the sale value. Word of mouth/ recommending someone is a very powerful marketing tool which is cheaper and could reach more people because the selling of product is based on trust. Would you not buy a product your close friend uses and finds beneficial and asks you to try ?

Yes, you might want to learn the overview of it so you’re knowledgable and understand how your checks are getting formulated, but I’ve met too many successful networkers who can’t explain comp plans to spend any real time on them. When people ask questions, I refer them to the documentation that’s available and ask them if they’re ready to start a business they can work from home – even online in most cases.
I’d like to point out a few things: statistically something like 96% of businesses fail within the first 5-10 years, which is a much more impactful loss, both financially and time wise, than the few hundred dollars one puts into whatever product they’re using in MLM. So realistically the success rate as a “self employed business owner” with MLM is probably a bit better than it is with launching a traditional business, or at least consistent with it. It takes discipline and tenacity that many people don’t have- that’s why they chose to remain employees in the first place. 

Twitter offers a more automated means of lead capture. With a target web site, either your own or the ‘offer’ money site, you are in a position to write short articles or blogs and then post Tweets carrying links to these articles. Keep those down to about 10% of the total, linking the other 90% to interesting on-topic snippets elsewhere on the web. Then use a good scheduler to queue a week or two’s Tweets and then let it run on auto pilot.

At the other end of the spectrum is buying leads. This is also not the best option since it can be very expensive and may result in leads that may not actually be interested in your products or business. These are not great leads, either. The best leads will always be the ones you generate yourself—people who have shown some sort of interest in what you have to offer.

Kathleen, you are right about the “direct sales” thing. They use it because MLM has the well-deserved bad connotation with pyramid schemes. I try to explain to people that true direct selling would be something like Ebay… there’s no inherent multi-level commissions implied by the term “direct sales.” It almost reminds of calling an illegal dog fight a “recreational gaming event.” It may be true, but is far from an accurate description. 

Well MLM companies have been a frequent subject of criticism as well as the target of lawsuits. Criticism has focused on their similarity to illegal pyramid schemes (hence the “scheme” reference), price-fixing of products, high initial start-up costs, emphasis on recruitment of lower-tiered salespeople over actual sales, encouraging if not requiring salespeople to purchase and use the company's products, potential exploitation of personal relationships which are used as new sales and recruiting targets, complex and sometimes exaggerated compensation schemes, and cult-like techniques which some groups use to enhance their members' enthusiasm and devotion. Eesh!
Most people who try network marketing fail – not because the products they are marketing are poor, but because they do not realise how much effort network marketing is, and how much time they need to put into it. All too often, would-be marketers give up when they get to the six month point, but they are not quite turning a good profit. What they don’t realise is that if they had waited it out just a few months more, and kept on marketing and expanding their business, then they could have been profitable.
Our goal is to provide you with the best possible tools to build your network marketing business. There are some critical areas in building your business that are very important and can never be overlooked. Having new prospects look at your business is by far the most important task you can ever accomplish in network marketing. The next key, is having the skill set and knowing what to say to prospects. We provide ongoing real-time prospects that are looking for ways to make an additional income by working from home and we also provide you with scripts and training calls where you can listen to us do live calls and speak to prospects.
Our goal is to make it easy for you to find the Network Marketing Leads you need so you can spend your time growing your business into the success you want it to be. Save yourself lots of time and money by selecting one of our Business Opportunity Leads Lists today so you can start targeting your market as soon as possible! Simply contact us now to get started. Easy Breezy!
How many leads do you get for your money? Obviously the more leads you can get for the best price the more leads you can buy at a time. MLM Leads are a great way to not only create activity in your MLM Business, but also find some great people for your business. Want a great way to build your MLM business? Well Co-registration MLM leads are one of the best ways to find new prospects and new product buyers. Multi-level marketing lists generated by quality companies that have the tools and experience to glean true lists for an advertiser's particular marketing needs are also known as targeted MLM leads.

The cons of mlm are that most people getting into mlm don’t understand mlm. They apply the incorrect philosophy and it becomes a recipe for disaster. I see dozens of people monthly that join a mlm, don’t work and don’t yield any results and as a result, leave with a bad taste. But with correct leadership that problem could be averted. That is precisely why I love my company. It has the best leadership (in my opinion) and they properly train their agents.

“I wouldn’t be where I am today without the knowledge I gained from [Michael’s] live events and training CDs. Two MUST-HAVE [programs] in your CD library should be ‘The Total Success Pack‘ and ‘Building a Better Life.’ I’ve listened so many times I’ve lost  count. PRICELESS information for your journey to success in business and in life… ‘Easy to do. Easy not to do’ The choice is yours.”

Choosing a company that offer quality training and support may help your business a great deal.  You must be taught the rudimentary of marketing, referrals and how to close sales.  The best company should help you to upgrade your skills to help grow your business. It must share with you secretes of driving your website and how to effectively utilize the leads. It must help you brand your business and reach to as many clients as possible.
Prequalified prospects, sales referrals, or genealogy lists, whatever name is used, MLM leads are the lifeblood of any MLM (multi-level marketing) business, and without a continuous supply, the network marketing distributor will go broke and have to close down their MLM business. The question most networkers ask is “where do I get the best possible MLM leads for little or no money?” Are they generated on the internet, bought from an MLM lead-generation company, worked in the local market or found among friends and family? The answer is easier than it may seem; all of the above.
I recently spoke with San Diego based, Vicki Martin, about her experience with Rodan + Fields. Here's her take on her home business and why the opportunity was so appealing for her and her family, "The decision to join Rodan + Fields Dermatologists came easily. Since 2008 the construction industry [which I was previously in] has been hit hard by our economic downturn and my income has been greatly affected. We were working harder for less like many of our friends. Being part of Rodan + Fields Dermatologists is allowing me to work with highly educated people who share a passion for business and for teamwork. Building a recurring, residual income that grows month over month is going to give my husband and I the peace of mind and financial freedom that is so vitally important to our future. My skin looks better than ever. And, I get to work my job around the rest of my life instead of the other way around."
The overwhelming majority of MLM participants (most sources estimated to be over 99.25% of all MLM distributors) participate at either an insignificant or nil net profit.[12] Indeed, the largest proportion of participants must operate at a net loss (after expenses are deducted) so that the few individuals in the uppermost level of the MLM pyramid can derive their significant earnings. Said earnings are then emphasized by the MLM company to all other participants to encourage their continued participation at a continuing financial loss.[13]

Everyday, people get sucked into the lure of MLMs (“multi-level marketing” or “network marketing”) and I can’t stress enough the need to stay far, far away from them. These include Herbalife, Arbonne, LuLaRoe, Younique, Rodan + Fields, and Amway among many others. I understand the need for flexibility, especially if you are a full-time student or are raising young children. Believe me, I also understand getting a job that allows you to create your own schedule and work remotely takes Hunger Games level competition. I am always surprised when I see college educated women sucked into these things. But it’s telling about other issues, like childcare, maternity leave and corporate culture in the US. MLMs are pyramid schemes, and are extremely predatory because the only way to make any money is to sign up more and more people under you which will just ruin your social relationships and make you a pariah where it matters most: your friends and family members.

At the other end of the spectrum is buying leads. This is also not the best option since it can be very expensive and may result in leads that may not actually be interested in your products or business. These are not great leads, either. The best leads will always be the ones you generate yourself—people who have shown some sort of interest in what you have to offer.
First, Elliot, thank you for this article. Your sense of truly wanting to help comes through and it’s refreshing. Like MommyFinance, I too have suffered PTSD from previous runs at MLM but I have been looking for legitimate ways of making extra income and seems I’m being directed toward trying MLM again. Your article gave me hope that there are some good ones out there. What you said about finding the one that fits me and leaving a legacy for family really turned on a light for me and I greatly appreciate that. A wine business is not quite up my alley but I will certainly direct those who might be interested your way.
I love love love this article! I’m a business growth coach who works with small business owners and often leaders from other MLM’s. From time to time I’ll get someone who has been struggling significantly even getting started and I find that it’s sheer absence of knowledge of the numbers. They are still under the impression that if I get three, and they get three then we’re all going to be millionaires. It’s very sad but the truth is not being told. Being in an MLM is hard. But it is very doable. I have had significant success in the past, while I am not in an MLM now. Nor do I want to be, you must be all In to make it work. Thank you for sharing this. I would love to interview you on one of my webinars
We are experts in Network Marketing Lead Generation, and know what it takes to find the right type of serious opportunity seekers that are ready to invest time and money in a legitimate business. These leads are hungry to be sold the right biz opp, and buy now. Contact us today so that we can discuss your marketing budget and figure out a Biz op lead program that best fits you and your organization. When you buy network marketing leads you want to be partnered with LavaLeads.com
RESPONSIVE MLM LEADS/NETWORK MARKETING LEADS: Starting a Home Based Business doesn't mean that you have to pester your family and friends to join your business. You don't need to become a social pariah to make money. MLMLeadSpecialist puts you in touch with people who like you, want to start a home based business. Now you can reach excited and eager MLM/Network Marketing prospects and close sales!
I agree with Jeannie. You can build a solid foundation from your warm market & then it snowballs. It is hard work & not a get rich industry. I to am with dōTERRA which is such a product driven company that 80% of wholesale customers are just customers because the products work. I love how everyone I have interacted with in my Upline are so driven by a purpose much bigger than amassing wealth! After almost 20 years of business experience (corporate sales & real estate), I can proudly say that I’ve never worked in such an edifying & encouraging environment. I can’t remember even 1 of my former bosses sitting down with me to chart a plan to bring me up to their level or even to take their current spot on the corp ladder – too much insecurity in that world & after all only 1 person makes it to the top of that pyramid. I love that in Network marketing you can easily surpass the rank & income of the person above you if you work with great purpose. The mentoring available & the personal development which happens in this environment is incredible!
For the distribution of goods after manufacturing, the product has to go through the distributor, wholesaler and finally the retailer before reaching the hands of the consumer. A MLM company shorten the supply chain shorter by directly selling to consumers. A claim they say helps to save cost for consumers. Speaking about cost savings, find out the best rate using our  home loan comparison and  personal loan comparison  tool
We are Not a Network Marketing Company, but are the Largest Lead Vendor to the Network Marketing Industry.  We are your one-stop-shop for the best Home Based Business and MLM leads! We provide our customers with the freshest, up-to-date leads and information in order to help you and your business succeed. All of our leads are highly qualified individuals that are interested in getting involved with a home based business. If you’re looking to expand your business, we’ve got the leads and information you need! Our company is dedicated to supplying you and your business with the best leads possible! We understand you need a reliable and credible lead source and that’s why we’re here!
Most people who try network marketing fail – not because the products they are marketing are poor, but because they do not realise how much effort network marketing is, and how much time they need to put into it. All too often, would-be marketers give up when they get to the six month point, but they are not quite turning a good profit. What they don’t realise is that if they had waited it out just a few months more, and kept on marketing and expanding their business, then they could have been profitable. 

“Joining an MLM is appealing to women who find hope in their promises of a better life: freedom, economic independence, and an endless supply of cheery trinkets. Despite professing quick-income prospects though, it’s difficult for MLM consultants to earn more than pocket change. When glitzy recruitment videos yield to the reality of suburban cul-de-sacs, people selling for MLMs can be plunged into debt and psychological crisis.” (Quartz)
The Federal Trade Commission warns "Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. Some are pyramid schemes. It's best not to get involved in plans where the money you make is based primarily on the number of distributors you recruit and your sales to them, rather than on your sales to people outside the plan who intend to use the products."[21]
Our MLM Autoresponder Leads are fresh & responsive, and they have specifically stated that they are seeking information on starting an internet home-based business. They are high quality leads from 100% Opt-in sources, and are never generated through email or spam marketing. We guarantee that you will be the exclusive holder of the Leads for your primary Opportunity, never re-selling the same lead to anyone else who is promoting the same MLM or Network Marketing business. We also guarantee that we will not sell the leads more than 2 times total.
Another issue that Amway and other companies were dinged for was how reps would lure people into coming to a "meeting" to hear how they could "leverage time and money." There are two problems related to this. The first is that many companies, in safeguarding their brand, don't allow reps to advertise their name. This practice means reps have to find a way to entice people to learn about them without saying the company name, which can seems suspicious.
Getting leads is just one step in the sales cycle. Next, you need to qualify them to determine if they're a good fit, then make your pitch, and finally, follow up. Many network marketers don't like the sales process, but it doesn't have to be hard or scary, especially if you start with leads who've come to you specifically to know about what you offer.
Most people who try network marketing fail – not because the products they are marketing are poor, but because they do not realise how much effort network marketing is, and how much time they need to put into it. All too often, would-be marketers give up when they get to the six month point, but they are not quite turning a good profit. What they don’t realise is that if they had waited it out just a few months more, and kept on marketing and expanding their business, then they could have been profitable. 

The following is a list of organizations that according to their website descriptions provide MLM lead lists. Database Systems Corp. is not affiliated with any of these organizations nor does it promote or endorse the products and services of these companies. These websites provide various types of leads including business marketing leads, business opportunity leads, opt in MLM leads, network marketing leads, home business leads etc.


The internet has made it easier than ever for people involved in multilevel marketing (MLM) to find leads or people who might be interested in your product, service, or business. Instead of just reaching out to people you know or approaching strangers, you can create a website, build an email list, leverage social media, and develop referral programs to generate solid leads that can eventually translate to sales.
One strategy some sketchy MLMers use to recruit is by giving the impression that if you don't join now, you'll miss out. They tell you that if you don't get in early, the market will saturate and therefore, there won't be anybody for you to sell to or recruit. But that myth is nonsense. First, how many people do you know and how many buy from or are in an MLM? Odds are very few, which means there are many potential customers and recruits. Further, every day there are people who turn 18 and enter eligibility to join an MLM company.
7. Ads in local newspapers. Classified ads can pull many leads if handled properly, and weekly newspapers are usually inexpensive. You can use this method to drive people to your Web site as well. But be careful with your investment here. Getting leads is easy. Converting them into productive parts of your organization is hard work, but it's a strategy that will get results as you improve your cold sponsoring and training skills.
For full disclosure, I want to point out that I am not affiliated with any multi-level marketing or direct sales companies, and that I don’t receive any compensation from the industry for my opinion on it.  I’m sharing this with you because after I wrote what is considered the most widely read, copied, and quoted MLM article in the history of the industry, I was accused of writing it to promote my own MLM business or the industry in general, which is not the case.
If you are interested in learning more about the options of network marketing lead generation or would like to contract a company with specialty in your industry, give us a call at Farotech: 267-387-6620. Our marketing professionals are knowledge about all areas of the marketing process and can help you by developing an individualized business marketing plan to improve your sales and lead generation at this time.
Hi Don,First I want to say how impressed I have been with your company. I have dealt with a great deal of leads companies over the last 6 years and have never dealt with a more responsive company than yours. Actually they don't come close to being this quick to respond- let alone it being the owner of the company to reach out. So thank you for that! Also, thank you for the information! I'm happy with that response - I was just curious about the process. This is only my second time ordering leads at or over 10,000 in ...
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